Comments on: Insiders and outsiders

By: Elsa

Elsa — Mon, 18 May 2015 16:12:47 +0000

Definitely an interesting area for investigation/discussion. To what extent do you think the outsider looking to become an insider is actually looking to move the nature of outsiderness, ie to adapt the world, not themself so that they become insider? Eg Thatcher was an outsider who wanted to move the whole focus of politics (and arguably did) so that her views became mainstream “insider” rather than outsider. Ditto Benn, who was born an insider (your view) or possibly an outsider (my view above) who became an insider to the mainstream Labour party but then an outsider who looked to move the party so that he would have been an insider and the likes of Blair outsiders.

By: thenextwavefutures

thenextwavefutures — Fri, 15 May 2015 11:01:36 +0000

In reply to Elsa.Points taken, but the thinking on Insider/Outsider is not so much whether you are an insider/ousider in a particular group or institution, such as the Labour Party, but the "establishment", as it was once called, or the "elite", as it seems to be called now. Westminster School was and is an expensive public school; his father (a Liberal who then joined the Labour Party) was Secretary of State for India. His grandfathers were both Liberal MPs. This all sounds pretty "inside" to me.

By: Elsa

Elsa — Fri, 15 May 2015 09:08:28 +0000

The problem I see with your thesis is that there it provides no firm definition of what/who an insider or an outsider is. To take one of your examples, the Benns were always mavericks. The Hon. Anthony Wedgewood-Benn may sound “insider” but the title was one awarded to a Labour politician in the 1940s, not some ancient landed one. He went to Westminster School, renowned for its “independent” thinking not Eton. So he was always an Outsider as far as one grouping was concerned, although he became an “Insider” of the 1970s and 1980s hard left while something of an “Outsider” to the wider 1970s Labour party, opposing EU membership and supporting an “alternative” economic strategy. He became an Insider within the 1980s Labour Party and almost became deputy leader. He had a profound effect on its policies, helping it to lose big time in 1983. So I can see why you think he was an Insider who wanted to become an Outsider but one could just as easily say that he was an Outsider who wanted to become an Insider.